Curse

Evilsod · Apr 14, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

That's actually the point. PvE has no such limit, its unfair PvP does.

I never said it was fair. I'm saying that PvP chars shouldn't be able to instantly craft themselves prestigious armour and weapon skins, been able to sell faction in the form of Flames of Balthazaar would be a solution. But giving people access to a Fellblade skin or 15k Primeval for a PvP char just isn't fair on PvEers.

j0nas · Apr 14, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

/signed
PvP exclusive armor would be great and some item skins
but i don't want pve armor unlocks i would prefer armor/weapons that says: "nolifer who spent too much time in PvP" not FoW armor that says: "i have no life so i sit in UW farming ectos"

Dubby · Apr 14, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

/signed

As long as weapon skins and armor skins are excluded, I'm fine with it. Those are PvE for a reason.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 14, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I never said it was fair...But giving people access to a Fellblade skin or 15k Primeval for a PvP char just isn't fair on PvEers.

You begin by saying its unfair for PvPers and not caring. And then end by saying if it were implemented it would be unfair for PvEers but you do care there. Is this not bias in its purest form?

Sorry for quoting and rebutting you so many times, not meaning to flame and I hope it doesn't appear that way, but I really do want this implemented and don't see any concrete reason not to have it.

EDIT:and I think the biggest reason for my support is what someone said earlier. Its not like you can bring a PvPer to show off in PvE. You can, however, bring a PvEer to show off armor in PvP. The unfairness of PvE to PvP is simply astronomical at the moment.

MithranArkanere · Apr 14, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

No.

If you buy the PvP Packs, you get all skills unlocked instantly.
THen, you make make instalty the builds you want, and instalty start to earn faction points.

If you buy the PvE campaigns, you don't get anything unlocked instantly, you may have to spend months to finish each campaign, and much more to unlock all the skills and items.
PvP is easier, because even igf you lose, you can still grind the Training arenas over and over, unlocking everything but the 6000 faction heroes.

If you have an skin available for PvP, you can make if indefinitaly, as many times as you want, with no cost.
If you want to make another single item in PvE, you have to gather gold each time you want to make or get one.

PvP characters have to stick with Non-ascended and collector's skins, it's their fate.

Faction should be tadeable for Value:0 items.
PvP is not a mean to gain gold, but to test and improve your skill.

Dubby · Apr 14, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

No.

If you buy the PvP Packs, you get all skills unlocked instantly.
THen, you make make instalty the builds you want, and instalty start to earn faction points.

If you buy the PvE campaigns, you don't get anything unlocked instantly, you may have to spend months to finish each campaign, and much more to unlock all the skills and items.
PvP is easier, because even igf you lose, you can still grind the Training arenas over and over, unlocking everything but the 6000 faction heroes.

If you have an skin available for PvP, you can make if indefinitaly, as many times as you want, with no cost.
If you want to make another single item in PvE, you have to gather gold each time you want to make or get one.

PvP characters have to stick with Non-ascended and collector's skins, it's their fate.

Faction should be tadeable for Value:0 items.
PvP is not a mean to gain gold, but to test and improve your skill.

You also have to think about things from the company's point of view, not just ours.

"What's keeping them playing? What do they go for? Do we want them to leave? Should we give them more to work for? What have they purchased so far, would they purchase more?"

Those kinds of things, so this is a valid idea I think.

Master Sword Keeper · Apr 14, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

/notsigned

Defeats the purpose of RP characters. People who have spent hours of playing and farming to get the money and materials to buy Primeval etc etc and PVP'ers can just unlock it over-night. Don't be so selfish.

Evilsod · Apr 14, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

You begin by saying its unfair for PvPers and not caring. And then end by saying if it were implemented it would be unfair for PvEers but you do care there. Is this not bias in its purest form?

Sorry for quoting and rebutting you so many times, not meaning to flame and I hope it doesn't appear that way, but I really do want this implemented and don't see any concrete reason not to have it.

A PvPer can delete and remake that armour as many times as he likes to fit exactly what he needs. A PvEer has to fork out 15k + materials, in Primevals case, also defeat Abaddon (I hate that mission with a passion), spend money on runes. To equip a Sup Vigour in PvE it costs you about 20-25k more than it does for a Major. To equip 1 in PvP it costs you a few thousand faction, once. The fact PvP chars can instantly create there armour to any standard they want is a huge advantage over a PvE char, no amount of unfairness towards PvE skins changes the fact it took them alot longer to get it.

Quote:

EDIT:and I think the biggest reason for my support is what someone said earlier. Its not like you can bring a PvPer to show off in PvE. You can, however, bring a PvEer to show off armor in PvP. The unfairness of PvE to PvP is simply astronomical at the moment.

No offence, but that is an absolutely awful reason. PvP chars were created so that PvPers didn't have to fully equip PvE chars with weapons, armours, runes and skills, costing potentially 100s of plat. PvEer can show off in PvP all they like with flashy armours n weapons. PvPers can enter PvE (if they got lucky) with a rare Crystalline Sword that drops ONLY in HoH. And also why exactly would a PvPer be interested in flashing there armour? They PvP for the Fame or to be in a high ranked guild. If thats not reward enough then you need to decide if you're doing the right thing.

Armour/Weapons should not be a solution for the excess Balthazaars Faction you can get. Even PvP only armours are extremely unfair on PvEers, they have to reach a point in a game and buy them. PvPers could just farm faction.

LuckyGiant · Apr 14, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

/notsigned, pvp should be just about stats not looks. Obsidian armor has same stats as droks so what is the point of it then?

/not signed, same reason as above

functionality > appearance in PVP

My suggestion for balth faction you can donate to the guild, pool it together and officers or the leader can use to it to get unlocks for guild hall as alternative to paying gold. Yes NPCs aren't too useful to most pvp based guilds & ones cconstantly changing halls, but hey it's a balth sink ^^

BlackSephir · Apr 14, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Yeah, functionality > appearance... so? What's wrong with a pvp player that want's his characters to look different?
Does that mean he's sucky pvp player or what?

But I just had another crazy idea- armours just for pvp, you unlock them with FB, can't buy in pve

equality -,-

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

There are still a LOT of armors, the cheap ones: 1k, 1,5k that isn't present in the PvP armor selection. So, PvEers out there listen to me: Can I use the Elonian starter (1k max) in my PvP characters? unlocking it with thousands and thousands of PvP hours? please please!! Wahahaha! I can /kneel if you want!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

/notsigned Defeats the purpose of RP characters.

Hmmm! I don't remember killing Abaddon with my PvP assassin! How can I do that?

LuckyGiant · Apr 15, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, functionality > appearance... so? What's wrong with a pvp player that want's his characters to look different?
Does that mean he's sucky pvp player or what?

But I just had another crazy idea- armours just for pvp, you unlock them with FB, can't buy in pve

equality -,-

What kind of arguement is that lol. Your reasoning is terrible, not that there is any.

Equality, exactly you hit it right in the head. PvE farms for 50hrs to get his weapon. PvP unlocks it in what 3hrs...

Fancy skins and armor are just not needed for pvp, all armor & weapon skins serve the same functionality. 6 months down the track, every pvp player will be in the same "fancy" armor with the same crystalline sword and it won't mean anything to them anymore. It's only the PvE players that lose because their effort means nothing now.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 15, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

eh this thread is dead. people just don't seem to understand that a unlocking 50k faction something means you need a balth limit of 50k, i.e. zillions of more time playing than pve.

Yawgmoth · Apr 15, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

This thread got spammed with tons of totally DUMB posts, like for example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Defeats the purpose of RP characters. People who have spent hours of playing and farming to get the money and materials to buy Primeval etc etc and PVP'ers can just unlock it over-night. Don't be so selfish.

Did you even read the OP? Are you sure you understood it? Do you know that the suggested system makes it like 100x harder to get using faction than by farming? And who's selfish now?

Some people don't understand very basic things:

-Balthazar faction could be a powerful rewarding tool for PvP players but is completely useless now (after getting the easy UAX).

-PvP players can already spawn any perfect stats items and the game is balanced, so the only way of rewarding is through looks. (we're not talking about titles/emotes here)

-Achieving a high Faction Cap requires GREATLY bigger effort than simple dumb farming ( example: I can farm enough gold + materials for that Primeval armor in 1 DAY, but getting the required faction cap (60k fb) takes many many months of hardcore pvp play, and is totally out of reach for the vast majority of players )

-Don't count on Anet creating new armors / weapons just for PvP rewards as there are tons of such stuff already done. I used the existing sets just as an example, I'd prefer getting exclusive new stuff too, but chances for that are quite low.

-If you really think that increasing the number of a certain prestigeous armor by about 1% (and that 1% only limited to pvp chars, so they can't even show off in your pve towns) would make your armor lose it's meaning / value / prestige then... just no comments... /point /laugh at the emo kid.

-like it or not, a system of rewarding pvp players with various tiers of rare skinned items IS coming very soon, it just won't use faction but some tournament reward points.

The Real Avalon · Apr 15, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

I agree with yawg, but imo it's still silly for the rare skinned items for PvP'ers only, even though that's ANet's idea.
Seriously, only hardcore PvP'ers have a chance at them.
Then again, the majority of Guild Wars' PvE farmers thinks PvP is too easy and if they'd really focus, they could pretty much get rank 12 in a week of 'Fame Farming'
I just suggest faction can be traded for Flames of Balthazar, which would have value at any Armor crafter, Material trader; but making them have a value of around 3,000 gold a Piece.

BlackSephir · Apr 15, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyGiant

What kind of arguement is that lol. Your reasoning is terrible, not that there is any.

Equality, exactly you hit it right in the head. PvE farms for 50hrs to get his weapon. PvP unlocks it in what 3hrs...

Fancy skins and armor are just not needed for pvp, all armor & weapon skins serve the same functionality. 6 months down the track, every pvp player will be in the same "fancy" armor with the same crystalline sword and it won't mean anything to them anymore. It's only the PvE players that lose because their effort means nothing now.

That one's funny... I just love people who use 'lol's and such in discussion...

Quote:

Equality, exactly you hit it right in the head. PvE farms for 50hrs to get his weapon. PvP unlocks it in what 3hrs...

Yeah, so? Listen, I don't care if you sacrificed 2 years of your life to get perf crystalline sword and fow armour- I want pvp characters to be able to look different- if there are more armours why not make them 'craftable' in pvp?

Oooh right, you sacrificed 2 years to get blahblahblah
So my point was- make PVP ONLY armours, FB unlockable- what's 'not fair' about it? Pve players will have their own 'prestige' armour and pvp players too

I've said it in my previous post but it seems it's stupid to belive that random_userz will read whole posts...
"But I just had another crazy idea- armours just for pvp, you unlock them with FB, can't buy in pve

equality -,-"
That's what I've said

Quote:

Fancy skins and armor are just not needed for pvp

This is funny- so you're telling me that fancy skins and armours ARE needed in PVE?

Sword with mega-fancy skin 15^50 20/20 has other functionality than wooden sword 15^50 20/20 ?
But I guess you're right... I wouldn't be able to beat Abaddon if not for my fancy armour and weapon... oh wait a minute... I don't have a fancy armour and weapon! Nevermind then...

Fey · Apr 15, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I do not think, as iv said before that PvP charecters should be able to get End game armor or obsidian/15k, though i have no problems with any other armors from the PVE section of the game.

Also i had an idea on what else could be intregrated into the game to spend faction on.
I thought of a 'Tabard' thats worn rather like the 'Guild tabards' in world of warcraft on torso of the charecter over any armor. It serves both an aesthetic and practical use, the tabard will have customizable Logo's and borders (like guild capes) and when you are placed in a team in an PVP arena the background of the tabard will change colour depending on what team your on, it acts as another visual aid to see your team and also gives the feeling of comradeship when going into battles.
I was thinking that designs and the actual tabard could be unlockable with balthazar faction, it could be an endless source as there are many designs that could be implemented.

well thats just my idea for faction.

NeHoMaR · Apr 15, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

This thread got spammed with tons of totally DUMB posts... Did you even read the OP? Are you sure you understood it? Do you know that the suggested system makes it like 100x harder to get using faction than by farming? And who's selfish now?....

Yeah, I am really impressed how some people don't get the idea, when we say "unlocking an armor skin with 50k factions" they think is just make 50.000 and done, and don't see you actually need a 50k faction cap, I can farm 10 FoW armors in the total time I expended getting that faction maximum capacity, if I talk about the real faction I got, is like 1.500.000 factions. If ArenaNet give me 15.000.000 gold for my work, that will be less money than I could normally get in PvE with the same work. So, PvE-only people, please shut up! it's enough!

Evilsod · Apr 15, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

Yeah, I am really impressed how some people don't get the idea, when we say "unlocking an armor skin with 50k factions" they think is just make 50.000 and done, and don't see you actually need a 50k faction cap, I can farm 10 FoW armors in the total time I expended getting that faction maximum capacity, if I talk about the real faction I got, is like 1.500.000 factions. If ArenaNet give me 15.000.000 gold for my work, that will be less money than I could normally get in PvE with the same work. So, PvE-only people, please shut up! it's enough!

Why should PvE only people shut up? Is it because they're the ones who are challenging you to say that PvPers shouldn't get high end PvE armour?
When we can buy Fame in end-game areas, then you can come and whine. Until then, they stay seperate.

chembaron · Apr 15, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I agree that obsidian needs to stay pve, but a pvp-only armor set would be nice to see. People who are hardcore pvp deserve an "elite" armor set just as those who play pve hardcore. I don't like pvp; I don't play pvp. So, I think I'm being fairly unbiased and fair by agreeing to pvp-only armor.